After our last episode with Madeline Weinrib, we had a lot more to say. This mini-episode is an extension of our usual Amy & Jaime post-interview debrief and a venture into the murky waters of social media. It’s also an invitation to you, our listeners, to engage with us in the grander dialogue about what it means to be a creative in the modern world. This conversation is just a starting point, we’d love to hear your thoughts. Hit us up via email hello@cleverpodcast.com, or on social: Twitter, Facebook or Instagram.

Clever is produced by 2VDE Media. Thanks to Jennie Josephson for editing this episode.
Music in this episode courtesy of El Ten Eleven—hear more on Bandcamp.
Shoutout to Jenny Rask for designing the Clever logo.

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Ep. 136: The Living Architectural Dream Worlds of Dennis Maher

Artist and designer Dennis Maher has spent decades exploring the life cycles of buildings. After studying architecture at Cornell, he moved to Buffalo, New York—where a job in demolition introduced him to the visceral reality of the built environment constantly breaking down and rebuilding itself.

That experience sparked a practice rooted in salvaged materials, forgotten objects, and the imaginative transformation of ordinary spaces. Maher’s work now spans sculptural installations, living environments, and his most ambitious project: The Assembly House, an evolving artwork housed inside a historic church that also serves as a training ground for the building arts.

Part immersive artwork, part cultural attraction, part educational engine, The Assembly House teaches people to build while reconnecting them to the tactile, communal experience of craft. Through what he calls “architectural dream worlds,” Maher explores how memory, materials, and imagination reshape the way we understand the spaces we inhabit—and the role we play in building them.

Ep. 235: Secret Mall Apartment’s Michael Townsend on Ephemeral Art with Enduring Impact

Public artist Michael Townsend grew up in a military family that relocated often—at least ten times during his childhood. He learned early how to explore new locales and seek out new friends before moving on to the next temporary hometown. His final relocation was to study art at RISD, when he chose Providence as home—and began quietly reshaping it. He founded the Tape Art movement in 1989 and built a thriving practice rooted in ephemeral public murals, deeply private underground installations, and highly clandestine collaborations, including the now-legendary Secret Mall Apartment.

For more than 30 years, he has created hundreds of temporary murals and collaborative public works around the world, including the 9/11 Hope Project and the invention of the BOOM! Projector. Now, with the success of the Secret Mall Apartment documentary on Netflix, it’s clear that he and his collaborators were deeply intentional about incubating that narrative until it was ready to be heard.

Moving fluidly in and out of the shadows—showing up, making an impression, then dissolving underground only to emerge again—turns out Michael himself may be a work of ephemeral art.

Ep. 234: From Band to CCO: Laura Stein’s Road to Creative Leadership

Chief Creative Officer of Bruce Mau Design, Laura Stein grew up on Nun’s Island outside of Montreal, a near utopia where kids never had to cross the street. Her psychiatrist father and museum-involved mother cultivated curiosity about emotions, critical thinking, and the arts. A move to Texas in her teens resulted in quite a culture shock. Laura found an innate knack for peer reviews and analysis, which became a strength throughout the rest of her academic and professional career. Originally graduating with a degree in English, she returned to school to study art, where she found not only her community, but her band mates. From there, it was a wild ride - record signing (Sub Pop,) touring, and navigating all the ups and downs of being in a girl band in the ‘90s – the ultimate creative boot camp. Now in leadership at Bruce Mau Design, she’s deploying the wisdom garnered from all these experiences to build a culture focused on keeping possibility alive.

Ep. 233: Clever Extra - Mick De Giulio on Designing Kitchens That Sing

For over 40+ years, Mick De Giulio has been dedicating his talents to designing kitchens that sing. It all starts with listening, and the results are masterpieces of flow, proportion, beauty, utility and emotional resonance. A devotee of craft, he’s known for having an unusual command of detail and materials. He brings it all together in service of designing dynamic shared spaces that foster connection, care and magic moments. The author of two books, Kitchen Centric and Kitchen, with a third out in 2026, he is an unmatched leader in the field who also supports the industry and elevates the art of kitchen design by way of the Sub-Zero, Wolf and Cove Kitchen Design Contest.

Ep. 232: Studio O’s Liz Ogbu on Spatial Justice and the Role of Design in Healing Grief

Designer Liz Ogbu grew up in Oakland as the daughter of Nigerian immigrants, but it wasn’t until her first trip to Nigeria at 16 that she grasped the profound role place, family, and cultural context play in shaping who we are—and what we create. Drawn to the creative possibilities of architecture, she studied both architecture and engineering before traveling across Africa on a Watson Fellowship, an experience that sharpened her understanding of who her work is ultimately for: the people most impacted by design.

Today, Liz is catalyzing what design can do—in transforming informal marketplaces, helping communities heal after being fractured by freeways, and weaving practices of grief, accountability, and repair into the built environment. Her work transcends traditional architecture, centering the excavation of harm and the pursuit of more empathetic, community-rooted design at a moment when it’s needed more than ever.

Ep. 71: Clever Extra - Originality in the Age of Social Media

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Ep. 71: Clever Extra - Originality in the Age of Social Media

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Ep. 72: Cory Grosser

Ep. 70: Madeline Weinrib

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